Silk Road forums
Discussion => Off topic => Topic started by: Addy on September 27, 2011, 01:28 am
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Hey, all. Over the last few years, I've tried coke, heroin, shrooms, and half a dozen other substances. Each time, I feel the intended effects. But when I tried Ecstasy a year ago, I felt the usual effects (euphoria, love and desire to chat with others, etc.) but I also felt something dangerous, deep down. I can't really put it into words, but I felt as though the substance I was on was, on some level, incredibly dangerous for me. It didn't really hurt the roll, as I was goofy and having fun, but I still had this inkling that this substance was in some way far more hazardous than coke, heroin, etc. ever were. I chalked it up to just being paranoid, since I had read some stories about people taking a bit of E and then never being happy again, and other bullshit anecdotes. Over the next several months, I researched the drug further, and found some peace of mind in learning the drug was safer (albeit not entirely safe, and I read into serotonin syndrome) than I previously thought. I took a moderate dose of E again around a month ago, and I felt that same dark sense of something dangerous, below the surface.
Finally, I took an MDMA/MDE mix yesterday, after going a month without even drinking alcohol or smoking weed, to clear my system of just about everything, and again I felt that foreboding sense of deeper malcontent. Don't get me wrong, I was rolling just great, euphoric and all that, but again, deep down I felt like something was utterly, terribly wrong.
I'm not overly worried that there will be anything terrible resulting from these feelings, since I haven't noticed any changes in my psyche over the last couple years, and the thoughts I get don't hurt the roll, but I am curious as to the cause of these feelings. Does anyone have any ideas? Is it just my subconscious trying to reject the oncoming flood of dopamine and serotonin? Is there something truly wrong with me?
Thanks,
Addy
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Hi Addy,
During this deep disturbance did it ever feel like a million voices suddenly cried out and then were silenced? ::)
I have limited experience with E but it has been positive every time with no foreboding feeling or darkness or disturbances.
Without knowing you it's hard to say if there's anything wrong with you. Then again there's something wrong with most of us :D
I am not a health care professional so all I can do is hazard a guess and say the pharmacological action of the E doesn't agree with your particular brain chemistry and you would probably be best off just not doing E again.
Have you ever tried any other amphetamines/analogs and if so what have been your experiences?
Be well,
T
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I can't say what it is, since I've never done E. But I have a feeling like perhaps you should walk away and find other things to enjoy, while you still can...
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Towelie, I've taken Adderall on several occasions and felt no ill side effects.
I think it's possible that Ecstasy may just be too powerful of a mind-altering drug, and I have too much of a need to have some level of mental control. While taking heroin, and smoking weed, I get a nice high, but I still feel mostly myself. With shrooms, although the world feels stranger (and I apparently can't operate my cell phone), I still feel like "me." With ecstasy, I feel totally different. I am usually a fairly reserved person, and opening up to others doesn't feel natural to me. Don't get me wrong, I can hold conversations, but telling others what I'm truly feeling and thinking just isn't my cup of tea.
This is just speculation, of course. It may have nothing to do with anything I posted.
Thank you both for your input.
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heavy use of ecstasy = serotonin disruptions = possible bouts of depression.
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Sounds very much like a dopamine side-effect to me. Unlikely to be a serotonin related issue in real time.
Some people can get a 'dark' reaction to dopamine release, and most experience a little paranoia after dopamine
has been depleted.
Have you had much experience with straight amphetamine or meth?
You may have a minor pre-disposition to mental health issues so don't go too hard.... All conjecture though of course!
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Sounds like an underlying anxiety issue from duress under body stress from the release of the chemical realease from X.
May i ask if this happens with pressed pills or pure MDMA crystals..or both?
:D nomad bloodbath
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@lasagna:
I've never taken more than ~200mg of MDMA, and never more than once in a single week. I've probably taken it around half a dozen times in total. And "bouts of depression" really has nothing to do with the topic.
@dr octagon:
I do get a bit paranoid after an MDMA roll, but what I'm referring to is during. During the come-up, sometimes during the peak.
@nomad:
Both. I've had pills a few times, and crystal only once.
I hope to try Mit/aa's crystal in a few weeks, and I'll be sure to update this thread when I do.
Thank you all for your input.
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Addy,
I'll apologize if I'm out of line but I have to ask why are you going to do it again? After a half dozen times of the same thing you can't be expecting a different result, can you? These instances you describe could be warning signs of some underlying condition that could possibly be exacerbated by repeated exposure. I know you will do what you want regardless but please think about it again.
Just so you know some of these feelings you are describing are benchmarks of clinical depression so I think it actually does have something to do with the topic and I think the sooner you realize that the better off you'll be.
@L75 Sorry if I jumped on what would have been your reply but I felt this needed attention.
Take care Addy,
T
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Addy,
I'll apologize if I'm out of line but I have to ask why are you going to do it again? After a half dozen times of the same thing you can't be expecting a different result, can you? These instances you describe could be warning signs of some underlying condition that could possibly be exacerbated by repeated exposure. I know you will do what you want regardless but please think about it again.
Just so you know some of these feelings you are describing are benchmarks of clinical depression so I think it actually does have something to do with the topic and I think the sooner you realize that the better off you'll be.
@L75 Sorry if I jumped on what would have been your reply but I felt this needed attention.
Take care Addy,
T
Thank you for your input. I'm currently using Methylone, and I have felt no presence of a "deep disturbance." I suspect the deep disturbance I feel is indeed as a result of using harder substances. I probably didn't feel anything on heroin because I was too busy almost passing out, and MDMA makes me think a hell of a lot more than most substances that just make me feel good.
I don't think I will do more than 125mg of MDMA ever again, as I'm afraid it may have negative effects on my psyche. I really do appreciate your advice, and I don't think I would truly enjoy life if I were to never do MDMA again, but I will certainly refrain using larger doses in the future.
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2011 study supports the idea that MDMA may not cause brain damage: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/02/20/ecstacy-doesnt-damage-the_n_825704.html
But nearly most other studies says that MDMA is at least somewhat nerotoxic (brain damaging).
Two enthusiasic and objective researchers at erowid and bluelight:
http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/threads/430539-Figuring-Out-MDMA-Toxicity. (2009)
http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/mdma/mdma_article5.shtml (2010)
Whether or not your deep disturbance is a subtle hint of toxicity or as other have said, underlying anxiety disorder... you will have to summarize all, the knowledge at data you can gather and then make that choice.
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Addy,
Drugs affect different people differently, and MDMA is no exception. Phenethylamines are a powerful class of drugs and they are well known catalyze wanted and unwanted thoughts and feelings, sometimes good, sometimes bad. So, even though its somewhat unusual for MDMA, it's not that surprising (to me at least) that you report having ominous feelings while on MDMA.
I think you have the right idea about lowering your dose. By most accounts, 200 mg is a pretty hefty dose. I would be that you could eliminate or at least mitigate those feelings by using less often and only taking the minimum dose required to have a good roll.
FWIW, people sometimes use benzodiazepines in conjunction with phenethylamines to reduce anxiety, epsecially during the comedown. It's something you could look into.
Everything in moderation. No need to push yourself mentally or physically, and with phenethylamines it's always possible to push the envelope.
Jim
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"During this deep disturbance did it ever feel like a million voices suddenly cried out and then were silenced?"
This is a crazy symbolic quote for me; back in '97, Ibiza, 1st time I'd dropped, these were my words.
Many years later, after seriously abusing MDMA, all I can say is moderate, a little goes a long way.
I can't say I've experienced ill affects, nor have any of my other professional friends...
Except weight gain now we've all stopped dancing each weekend ;D
Hydrate & don't overheat
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Jimmy n fnarfnaraway that's good advice even for those of us that don't feel the disturbance. Sometimes its good to get in touch with the disturbness anyways.. after all, the money is for the drug, and the drug is for the experience.. now you paid for this disturbance, might as well enjoy it :o
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+10.5 all of you ;D
This is interesting because I have on rare occasion felt a dread or a disturbance after dropping, but only if I am solo. It was some horrible underlying issue of a past life bubbling up inside me. I put it down to the openness I feel on the substance.
I read this interesting article a few weeks back. It is not really related but it is about MDMA being used to treat post traumatic stress disorder.
http://motherboard.tv/2011/8/16/the-agony-and-the-ecstasy-the-quiet-mission-to-fight-ptsd-with-psychedelic-drugs
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Except weight gain now we've all stopped dancing each weekend ;D
LOL I hear you :D :D :D in my 12 month mdma binge, i had never been so fit in my life.
The very best year of my life that year ;)
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Excstacy is the only drug that i have been hospitilzed for...with heart monitors strapped to me.... that day i was fucking freaking out beyond belief, i though was dying, my heart was being pulled down and i couldnt breathe....i called 911...they took me to hospital and they saved my life after giving some drug that knocked me out for 12 hours...when i woke up, i was seeing double of everything for the rest of the day..so i took it easy....
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@Lexus: Thanks. I can always do with some more research material.
@Jimmy: I'll look into them, much appreciated.
@novocaine: I'm always solo during my come-up, and only afterward do I go and converse with people (or share the MDMA). It's interesting you occasionally feel dread as well.
@dorito: Was it pure MDMA or was it pills? If it was pills, it's possible you were given some awful shit that had little to no MDMA in them.
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Addy: A friend of mine rolls often and says he normally feels anxiety during the come up. It's strange that you feel it during the peak, but it sounds like nothing more than a side effect of the drug. Every drug has some side effects that are common and others that are uncommon. No big deal... you just happen to be one of the people that gets the rare side effect.
Also, I wouldn't worry about serotonin syndrome unless you got muscle rigidity and other physical symptoms.